Summary:
In this episode, I sit down with marketing expert Anne Hoeger to explore her fascinating journey from chemical engineering to fractional CMO—and everything she’s learned along the way. What struck me most is how marketing, especially in high-growth and private equity environments, is rarely just about campaigns—it’s about leading people through change. Anne shares how she steps into organizations not just to drive growth, but to reshape culture, upgrade talent, and build the systems that make transformation sustainable.

We also dive into the power of community and what it really takes to lead in today’s rapidly evolving landscape—especially with AI accelerating everything. Anne opens up about building SWIM (Savvy Women in Marketing) into a trusted executive network, and how mindfulness, intuition, and self-care aren’t extras—they’re essential for staying grounded and effective as a leader. This conversation is both strategic and deeply human, and it will leave you thinking differently about leadership, reinvention, and the rooms you choose to be in.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

Marketing Is Really Change Management
I learned that stepping into a marketing role—especially in private equity—often means guiding teams through uncertainty, fear, and transformation, not just executing strategy.
Audience follow-up → Where in your business are you being called to lead change—not just manage outcomes?

Close Gaps with “Build, Borrow, Buy”
Anne shares a simple but powerful framework: develop internal talent (build), bring in external experts (borrow), or hire new capabilities (buy).
Audience follow-up → Which capability gap in your team needs a build, borrow, or buy solution right now?

Transparency Reduces Resistance
Clear, stair-step plans and open communication help teams feel safe enough to embrace change—especially when it comes to adopting AI.
Audience follow-up → How can you make your next big initiative feel clearer and safer for your team?

AI Is a People Challenge, Not Just a Tech Shift
What excites me most is Anne’s perspective that AI adoption is less about tools and more about mindset, support, and agency.
Audience follow-up → How are you helping your team feel empowered—not threatened—by AI?

Community Is a Career Accelerator
Building SWIM over 17 years, Anne shows that curated, high-trust communities can unlock growth, opportunity, and perspective in ways no course or playbook can.
Audience follow-up → Are you in the right rooms—and are those rooms helping you grow?

Deep Roots Sustain Big Leadership
Mindfulness, intuition, and self-care aren’t luxuries—they’re what keep you steady through constant reinvention and high-stakes decisions.
Audience follow-up → What practices help you stay grounded when everything around you is changing?

🔎 Mentioned in the Episode:

SWIM (Savvy Women in Marketing) – Anne’s curated community for senior women in marketing, built on trust, connection, and shared growth.
Build, Borrow, Buy Framework – A practical approach to closing skill and capability gaps within teams.
AI Masterminds – Small, high-value groups focused on learning, experimenting, and staying ahead of rapid tech shifts.
Fractional CMO Model – A flexible leadership approach where experienced executives step in to drive transformation without being full-time hires.

✨ Reflection Prompts:

• Where in your career are you being asked to reinvent yourself right now?
• Are you leading change… or resisting it?
• What kind of community would most support your next level of growth?
• How are you taking care of yourself while leading others through uncertainty?

🧠 Who This Episode Is For:

• Founders and executives navigating growth, transformation, or private equity environments
• Marketing leaders looking to elevate from execution to strategic influence
• Women who want to build meaningful, high-level communities and networks
• Professionals learning to lead through AI, change, and constant reinvention

📩 Want to Go Deeper?

Follow Lori on LinkedIn to continue the conversation

• Book a Leadership Strategy Call with Lori: loripine.com
  
  ✨ Connect with Anne:
  Ann Hoeger | LinkedIn 

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📲 Share this episode with someone who’s navigating pressure and wants to do it with more grace

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Joy CEO podcast. I'm your host Lori Pine, and if you are new here today, you are in for a treat. We are gonna talk to Anne Hager, who is a marketing expert. She's got a stellar career that you are all going to wanna hear about, and we are delighted to have her. If you've been around with me for a while, welcome back.

You know I love you, and let's get into it and welcome. Thank you. So glad to have you here with me today. So you and I have recently met. We are both part of a community of amazing women. I've been so impressed by this group of women, and it was such a treat to get to meet you because you too have this very CPG consumer product goods background, and I felt like talking to you was like just this kindred spirits kind of meeting.

Same. I'm very excited about today. It's so nice to meet another CPG executive. Yes. And so [00:01:00] you came up through the ranks and I just wanna make sure that the audience understands first as an engineer. And then made this pivot into marketing. Yes. Shockingly, at p and g, there are a lot of chemical engineers that move into brand management, so I was like, chemi isn't that big.

So I went from working in a research lab in undergrad to then interning with 3M for year, and then I worked at Cargill and Teamster plants for four years, and I went back to business school and then pivoted into marketing. But it's like the perfect blend of art and science. So I loved it. It's like you have to really understand the mechanics of like ROI and how a business works, but then it's like the art of really understanding a campaign.

So I, I love working in marketing. I think it's super fun. Amazing. And so from there you have pretty much stayed in marketing and had just this storied career. Yeah, it's been really fun. So I [00:02:00] went from p and g to a couple of other CPG companies. I've then worked in innovation and in and out of advertising agencies.

And then the past decade I've been doing fractional work, which suddenly took off. Like a lot of people joined my party in the past year or two. I'm like, no, I've been doing fractional work for a decade and more in the last five years. More focused in private equity, which is fun 'cause you're going in like post-merger integration or recent acquisition or a turnaround situation.

So it's really, it's part change management, part marketing. Nobody thinks they have a change management issue, so you get hired for marketing, but a lot of times you're taking a team through a change and really trying to. Help guide them and lead them through it. Yes. So you've been a trailblazer long before you even knew you were trailblazing.

I love that phrase. I got on my trail, I'm like, wait, what? Yes, yes, yes. So, let's go back. Was there a moment when you're in these [00:03:00] great CPG companies that. People would just really love to work for and you're an engineer. Was there a moment when you realized, Nope, this isn't for me. I wanna make the switch to go into fractional, to go into brand marketing.

Oh, I would say I was in business school, so I actually initially went back to business school to go into investment banking and I went out to Wall Street for a week and it's super cool. And like 10 of us went and half the group went into investment banking and like, it's okay. But I just started taking some marketing classes and I'm like, I, I, I love marketing and it's an ironic, so something lit up in you?

Yeah, I, I love it because it's the combination of art and science, so you still get to do the heavy analytics and like, I love running a business. I understand working, I love working with businesses, but I love like the part of marketing where you're taking an insight and where an insight and turning it [00:04:00] either a new product, a new campaign, or even an insight on an organization on how do I change the culture and move it forward.

So I love the. The art and science of like the mechanics of a business combined with the art of human insight and leveraging that and bringing it to life. I, I love it. What a duality. I don't know that everybody can do that, but it sounds like you sure can. You sure can do that. Yeah. So when I was looking over, you know, some of your experience and the things that you've done, and then the previous conversation we had, it seems like one of your paths is that you can really take a look at a business where there might either be a broken parachute.

Or like in the. You know, that could be the case in PE or the other situation is you take on these brand new situations where you're actually building something and creating something new. Is that how you would characterize the two patterns that you go [00:05:00] after? Something's either broken or you're building something?

Yeah, it's, it's something that's high growth. It's either high growth 'cause it's new, like the launch of a cruise line. Or it's high growth because it's, it's broken and you're going in to look for patterns. Like, okay, here's what's working. We wanna amplify that and do more of it. Here's what's not working.

How do we pivot and tweak that? And then how do I help guide the team to, to go through that? Because if you don't have the culture going with you. As you know, it's just not gonna happen. So it's like you can have the best investment thesis in the world, but if you don't have the team behind it, it's just not gonna happen.

So you're trying to figure that out. And then as you're looking at talent, I do build, borrow, buy. So can I build the internal TA internal team, or I also looking through the ecosystem. Can I build the current agencies? Like what training do they need? Maybe they need something else or borrow. Can I get temporary talent, whether it's freelancers or contractors to kind of [00:06:00] help help us the next three to six months as we're trying to go or buy is buy is bring in new talent.

Can I buy AI to help us with some of it? Can I buy another company to help us close those gaps? So it's looking at build, borrow, buy as you're steer stepping. Those changes at like 3, 6, 9 months. Yes. And how do you navigate some of the cultural changes with some of these changes? Because you know, with any change there's emotion and there's disruption, and how do you navigate that?

I mean, it's really hard. So you're trying to figure out like, Hey, what's important to this other person? So if there is a skills gap, like, Hey, do you, do you wanna close this skills gap? So you're looking at do they have the ability to do their current job? If they need more training, do they have the aptitude and attitude to get there?

And then working with them like, Hey, if you do this, this is available. Or understanding, here's the current ecosystem. How do I navigate this change [00:07:00] through that ecosystem? How do I what? Looking at like people product process, so do we have the right processes in place? A lot of times you don't like you're in high growth.

Your private equity has just bought this team. They're a super talented team. Or they wouldn't have been purchased the, the company wouldn't have been purchased. Right? If you knew it's like, hey, we're on a high growth trajectory. It would be, it might be helpful to staff and agency council where we're all getting together once a week and talking about what's going on.

Do. If we're looking at process, do we have a creative brief? Do we have a marketing plan? Do we have processes in place that em empower? You know, it's scary when a new process comes in or a new person comes in, but it's highlighting like, Hey, this is gonna ultimately empower all of us. This will give us better communication.

Rolling out the different plans and getting everybody aligned and onboarded and showing them, Hey, here's what's in it for you. Here's what's in it for the team. Here's what's in it for you. Here's what's in it for [00:08:00] the organization. And you're, you're taking baby steps to get people aligned and get, get the whole company to move forward.

Yes. And it sounds easy, but we know that that is like moving the Titanic, right? That is really like a very big, tall order. Well, in asking people, are you up for this? So I remember going into a turnaround and talking. I think the company had had a huge revenue drop and talking to the CEO, like, are you sure you're up for this?

Like, we're g we might have to swap out some agencies. We might have to swap out talent. Like this is gonna be a tectonic shift to do this. And ultimately she's like, I'm, I'm not. And so I think it's be, but that was helpful for every, that's helpful for everybody. Or if you're working, you know, I'll go into an ecosystem.

You might have a dozen advertising, a dozen different agencies, and you're like, Hey, we're gonna change this. We're gonna add an agency council, we're gonna [00:09:00] start using a briefing process. How? How do you like it? And then like, Hey, are you up for this? It's like, who in your team do you want to be on this?

How do, how, how does it look? And just being really transparent, like, Hey, growth is, growth is, growth is hard. Like, you think you're up for it. And I also know I'm more on the side where I think it's exciting. I've done a lot of it. I think it's gonna be fun. But I, your team, I'm like, I know everybody's not in the same place I am.

Right. So I, I want you to go on this journey with me. I think it's gonna be really fun. We're gonna have high growth, we're gonna be changing things. But let me know what you need. Are, are you with me? What? What do you need? What does help look like? Like I want you to go on this journey with me, but I also know, like I look at change and think, oh, this is gonna be fun.

And I'm not. Everybody's not always in that camp. They're like, whoa, right. [00:10:00] You're reminding me of a dear friend of mine who loves running marathons, and so she just ran Tokyo. And she's like, this is so great. As her feet are bloodied, as you know, she can't walk as she's, you know, all these things have happened, right?

She just flew 24 hours and me, I can barely run to the mailbox. And I'm like, yeah, no. So I would not be up for that, but you know, I understand. So great comparison of, you know, are you really up for this? And kudos to the CEO who can tap out and say no. And then that gives you permission to bring in somebody who actually is Yeah.

And can be up for the task. Or you, or you adjust your goals, or you adjust how you're approaching it. It's like, Hey, for us to get here, here's what the stair steps look like. Mm-hmm. Are, are you with me on this? It could be an incremental investment like, Hey, if you want this growth, it's gonna cost this. If you wanna compress the [00:11:00] timeline to go in half, we can do that, but we've gotta bring in some outside resources to help us.

So I find transparency on it and talking through the specifics and the logistics. It's helpful for everybody because, so helpful. Then, you know, if you're on the same page and if you're not, then you can also negotiate that. Yeah. So yes, giving options with real clarity. Yeah. Yes. Sounds like a superpower for you.

So you've talked about being able to assess talent quickly and closing gaps. What do you see most often? Is it a skills gap? Is it confidence? Like what, what's happening? Is it something else entirely? I think when you're going in it's, it's like I'm, I'm very fortunate to have been trained at p and g. Yes.

So you just, the, and you're out of Campbell's and some other places also like unbelievable training. Yeah. And. I think a lot of times people just aren't aware of their gaps or they're not aware of, as you look at process like, Hey, here's [00:12:00] what a great marketing plan looks like. Here's how you can drive stronger integration by having an agency council.

Here are best practices to run an agency council. So I think kind of like a skills process gap, if that makes sense, right? People have gotten where they are doing what works. They're just a lot of times just not aware of another way to do things. Agreed. Yes. You and I talked about how you came from p and g and I came from the Coca-Cola company, and that's like getting a PhD and you really don't realize how fortunate you are until you leave and go other places.

Yes. You just don't. Realize that, and then you go other places and you're like, oh my gosh, there's so much holy smokes I can do to help you with consumer insight. Yes, there's so much I can do to help you with like, Hey, let's really optimize this marketing plan and look at our journey and figure out how, how to reach this consumer across the journey.

But people just aren't aware. They are doing the best they can with skills that they've learned, and it's just [00:13:00] making them aware of, Hey, here are some other approaches that you can take. Yes. Yes. I love that. Okay. Let's talk about something that might be really near and dear to your heart. Yes. You've built quite a community called Swim.

Yes. And I love this for you. So Savvy Women in Marketing, and it has over a thousand senior women, and you've been running it for 17 years. Yes, it's gone through a lot of iterations. So it started as just like five women at a happy hour and I thought, I love that theme is more fun than just going to happy hour.

Every Jason Bird sitting their happy, it's a swim meet. Haha. So like there wasn't. A lot of thought into the name Yeahing, and then people are like, oh, when are we doing this again? I'm like, I, I don't know, next month. And then I remember, I'm like, I have to go from an email to an evite. So we did that and then it, that it was too big for that.

So then we moved to Eventbrite. [00:14:00] Then during COVID we started doing salons of like five to 20 women to, 'cause like I took teams remote and I was like, I want everybody to have a good experience and I wanna deliver my number right now. I don't know if either one is gonna happen. And I'm like, who else has run remote teams?

So we probably did 10 more than maybe 20 salons during COVID, like. Hey, Hey Lori. What are you doing? That's work or what are you doing that just as importantly hasn't worked? We did. The consumer behavior has changed during COVID. How are you adjusting your media plans? How are you adjusting marketing?

Like, what does, what does that look like? So the salons are meant to be just kind of like a book club without the book, right? We just did one on accountability with Carol Mcot, who's like, amazing. She used to be chief of staff at Wrigley. So it's like, you know, you ha, you're running, you have multiple generations in the workplace.

We're all coming from different places. But how do you drive accountability and what does that look like? What are the, what's worked, what [00:15:00] hasn't worked? What are the processes and how is everybody approaching it? So yeah, it's, we've moved more towards these curated salons and I find them to be, it's like getting a PhD.

Love that. 'cause it's like get to be with like five to 20 other executives and it's just a real discussion on what's working, what's not working on a variety of different topics. And it's these incredible women who are doing these incredible things. Yes. Who it sounds like are very openly sharing Yes.

What it is that they're walking through. Yep. Last fall, we were doing them on value creation and private equity, so about depending on who you ask, there's not great data about but half. Portfolio companies are underwater. So it's how do you create value? Sometimes there's a perception that you can only create value through an integration or through cost cutting, but there's a, as you know, there's a lot you can do with marketing.

It's like, how can we target better? How can we reach her better? How can we find our marketing [00:16:00] plans? So we were having salons and what can you do to drive growth and drive value within those portfolio companies? So it's been, it's been really cool, and you get to learn from other people. They just, it broadens your lens like, I learned from you.

You learned from me together. We raise each other up and we have a different perspective. I love that so much. So for anybody who's listening that's in the marketing world and they want to be a part of something like swim or swim, yeah. What's your recommendation for them? Reach out to me if you're an executive.

And it's also just networking and trial and error and trying different stuff. So like I am in four different marketing AI mastermind groups and two of them I co-founded, two other ones I joined and that was also like, Hey, I'm trying to figure out marketing or, or in ai, are you trying to figure out marketing and ai?

One of them is like. Women I worked with at p and g that I've known 10, 20 years. And so we just [00:17:00] outright say, here's what I'm trying, here's what's worked, here's what has, hasn't worked. Somebody walked us through like her line review deck to say, here's where I used ai. And I was like, oh, I wouldn't have even thought of using AI like that.

Amazing. So, so I'm like, reach out to your peers, former group if you don't have one. The West Coast Mastermind I'm in is unbelievable because the people out of Silicon Valley on AI are holy smokes. Brilliant. What do you think of this? Is this what you're do in your spare time? Only one guy built a 10 person advertising agency over Christmas when he was bored.

You have to see this. It's unbelievable. Oh my gosh. Somebody else, a full-time CMO built this assessment that was incredible. Then somebody else, another one we had an hour where somebody vibe coded an app and an hour and I was like, this is just, so I would say getting community, [00:18:00] find like-minded people who are trying to figure out the same thing.

Yes, and it will, rising tides float all ships. So go in with an open mind and. Yeah, it's, it's, I find community as an executive is a must have right now. 'cause I think we are in the biggest shift in our lifetimes on multiple levels, and it's just getting in community and learning from other people. So let's just reiterate for anybody listening that you are in four marketing AI groups.

Yes. And that's just for marketing and ai. And I know you're in other groups because I'm in another group with you, so we can't stress community enough. And tell me just s some of the high level benefits of these groups. I mean, obviously you're learning, you're connecting, but what are you taking away that might not be so tangible?

I, I mean, some of it, like we, in one group I was in, it's like, how are you taking your team through this? So it's not just the functional skills, it's [00:19:00] like. No, how are you? It's my, one of my CPG groups. It's like, how are you taking your teams through this? Do you so good ask or So it's like somebody walks us through a deck, but then it's like, how did you enroll your team step by step?

How are you getting your marketing specialist to do this part? How are you upskilling your entire team? If people are like terrified, how are you addressing that? If somebody's going off the rails and you haven't put governance in place, what does that look like? So I think just the tangible nitty gritty, like, here's how I'm doing it.

It's not just the functional skill, like AI is a change management initiative. It's the biggest change management initiative of our career. I worked in on a plant automation task force a million years ago when I was an engineer, and because we had this massive task force and we mapped out the workflow, it's like, oh, I've seen what this looks like.

But Cargill was light years ahead of [00:20:00] competition because we had a massive task force. We had met monthly, we had KPIs, and it was an ongoing initiative. It wasn't a one and done. That's like where AI also needs to get now, if that makes sense. Yeah. And like I remember one of my friends going to a competitor and they had three times the employees.

I was like, how? And I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, and you and I were meeting with the coders every week, every other week. It was just a baked in initiative. And he's like. Our competitors aren't looking at it that way. Wow. He's like they, and so that's where I think AI is, and having that perspective from Cargill gives me a different perspective going into marketing ai, and then it's like you get in a group with executives and you're all sharing your experience and it just helps you.

Go to the next level, or you'll see somebody rolled something out and you're like, oof, I need to catch up on that. Yeah, there's loss of that [00:21:00] and just people using it. Ways I just wouldn't think of. So it's like A, to help you understand the change management. B, to help you up level and C, to just kind of push you a little bit and make you aware of stuff you might not be aware of.

So based on what you're seeing and perhaps from your marketing lens, does AI excite you or does it scare you? Well, I like change, so she loves change everybody. I think that this is the most exciting time of our career and you have to figure out how you're gonna take your team through it. So I compare it to plant automation, like we bought a plant overseas that when I was at CAR hud.

Like a hundred x the number of employees when you looked at it. And I was like, if you were at that plant, you would wonder how are they running a facility with 1% of the employees? And then on the flip side, I'm like, what are these people doing? Are they tripping over [00:22:00] each other or like, I don't. But I think that's where it's like you have to be in community with other people.

If you're at the plant that has a hundred x in place. You can't just figure that on your own, how to get to 1%. And it's like, when I look back at that, when we're leading on automation, we have vendors that other people don't have. We have processes that other people don't have. We're upskilling labor. Like, you know, you're in a teamster plant, you're like trying to show these guys, hey, your job is expanding.

And how do you train people to go through that? So that's where I find being in community with other executives is so helpful 'cause it helps you calibrate. Like at Cargill we had. In one facility, a computer trailer that we brought on site that we had, you could take a group class, you could go for individual tutoring.

The other facilities weren't doing that. And so just by being in community, you hear, oh, hey Lori, how are you approaching that? How are you [00:23:00] upskilling? How are you upskilling in these union plants? And getting people to go to the next level. And you're like, oh, you brought a a, a trailer on site, and there's.

There's training and it's like, oh, I wouldn't have thought of that. And so it's just, it helps you go faster and further by getting in community with other people and just having real time conversations on how you're doing it and those shared ideas. Yes. And then they just become exponential. Right? It's like the snowball.

They just keep snowballing. Yeah. Well, and you get, you get, Hey, what vendors are you using? What vendors work? What vendors didn't work? What processes are you using? What worked? What didn't work? What kind of training? Like, oh, you're offering group training and one-on-one training. So I remember as a new engineer, I'm like, I can come in here for help with Excel.

They're like, you can come in here for help with any IT need that you have. And I was like, I just. Get a tutor, like, that's incredible. I just hit, I just [00:24:00] hit the jackpot. I hit the jackpot. But like, our competitor, my, my friend went to a competitor. He's like, we weren't doing any of that. And so it's like, versus if you're just trying to upskill your workforce, but you don't give them any tools, well they're, it's gonna be hard to upskill on your own.

Right. For sure. Anything is difficult when you're trying to do it on your own. Yes. Anything, yeah. Yeah. Yes. Community makes all the difference. And I just love that you are setting such a power of example by being in four marketing AI communities, because you're gonna learn and you're gonna learn faster, and you're gonna share, and you're gonna just take that out into the work that you do with all of your clients that you have.

Yeah, and, and like I said, it's not just upskilling yourself. It's hearing what vendors are pe, what vendors people are using, what processes are you using, how are you rolling out governance, how are you? It's like all the, it's like one is CPG specific, [00:25:00] so exactly. How are you using AI and CPG? What's working, what's not working?

Yeah, it's like another one is like Silicon Valley. They are so far ahead on like just how they're pulling it together. And so it's like, okay, how are they thinking about it and how are they building it? So I think it's fascinating. The, the fractional group I'm in, how people are doing an individual tech stack and somebody walked us through an individual tech stack, Laurie, and I was like.

What are you doing? I didn't even think of this. Yeah, yeah. No, I can't imagine. I'd be like, let's go back to step zero. Yes, yes, please. And Ann, you have lots of interests. So not only are you this amazing marketer, this. Fractional CMO, helping people run their businesses, turn businesses around, but you have lots of passions that you do like outside of your day [00:26:00] job.

Would you like to talk about a couple of those? I love anything regarding like mindfulness and intuition. I think intuition is a superpower during all of, like I was at an AI. Event where five people presented for five minutes. It's somebody who used to run a TED event. So it was a TED inspired event and I talked, everybody else gave hacking tips and my tips run intuition is your superpower with everything happening right now.

So I love anything in the intuition, energy, mindfulness space. A second passion is like working out and like being super healthy. I love that because I think you have to have a strong. Somebody had said, tall trees have deep roots and it's given me a lot of perspective like, and you don't see the roots and you don't see what people are doing outside of work.

So I'm very passionate about what can you do for deep roots, whether it's mindfulness, healthy eating, working out [00:27:00] those things. Because the more I get grounded in that, the higher up I can rise to help other people. And it's like I was coaching somebody and I said. Self-care is not selfish. 'cause she felt like she just didn't have time for it.

And I'm like, it's actually the least selfish thing you can do because the deeper your roots go, the more you can help other people. But if your roots are shallow, you just can't. Yeah. You'll, you'll fall over. Yeah. You'll fall over. Part of that for me on my journey was learning that it was also okay to make an investment in myself.

Yes, a hundred percent. Not only in the communities that I pay to be a part of where I can meet amazing women like you, but also, you know, in growing my spirituality, in growing that intuitive side of me, the meditative side of me in, in a couple of days, I'm gonna head to Canyon Ranch in Tucson. Yeah. For five days.

But you know, there's a younger version of me who would never [00:28:00] have made that investment. She would've really said, no, no, no, you can't do that. You're not allowed. That's too much. But this. Evolved version of me is like, oh hell yes, and we're going and we're gonna have stronger roots as a result. Oh, I just went to Portugal with my mom and sister.

I got past it. This is my ninth meeting today. Oh my gosh. I am gonna make, it was the trip of a lifetime. It was incredible. And I. Came back with a different perspective and refreshed and excited and ready to go. But the old me would've been, what are you? You don't have time for this. There's so much.

You're not allowed. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, no, tall trees have deep roots. And I'm like. The deeper you can make your roots, the more counterintuitively, the more you can give back to the world, the more you can help other people. The more I can help businesses achieve what they are meant to achieve. But if you're not taking care of your roots, if you're not nourishing your roots, it makes it, I it makes it [00:29:00] really hard.

Yes. And then, and then to complete that cycle, the more you can receive. Right. And to keep that, that whole cycle going, it is a full circle. So you, you give and you help and you grow others, but then you actually receive it back. Yeah. Whether it's financial, whether it's love, whether it's kindness, what, what joy, whatever that is.

So it does complete that circle. I'd love your commitment to joy. Yeah. Thank you. I think, well, no. 'cause I've seen so many women get burned out the last few years, like really get burned out and I'm like. Joy is also like you need joy. Joy is like one of those root pieces. The more joy you have, the higher your tree can go.

Yes. And I am constantly reminding women that joy lives within us and it's a choice. It is a matter of choice. And when we're not enjoy, it's only because we're focusing on the stuff that is. Outside [00:30:00] of our hula hoop. It's all the people, all the places, all the things instead of, you know, controlling our ourselves.

So, yeah. Yeah. You also have some other fun interests that you do. You are a professor you volunteer for Ted. Wanna talk about that? I love it. So, I guess lecture, which I think I love talking about marketing.

Oh. I, I love marketing, so I'm like, if somebody's like, will you guest lecture? Will you come and talk to our company? Yes. I love it. Yes. Yes, please. And I've rolled off and I was on the speaker selection committee and I loved it because the, the TED community in Chicago, whether it's TEDx Chicago, TEDx Naperville, or the other TEDx, IIT.

Those leaders are so passionate about finding ideas that spread the uplift community. It is just the coolest place to be. So it's like you get to hear all of these cool Ted [00:31:00] ideas and then you're really trying to distill which ones are gonna, which ideas are worth spreading, and which ones like Elevate community, help community and like Rising Tides, little ships.

Which ones like. Ra, raise all of us and make us better. So it's just, if you get a chance to get involved in TED or speak to TED or any of that, I would tell anybody do it. It is like the most amazing people. Yes, it is on my vision board. Do it. Yes. Yes. I think the world needs to hear about joy, more joy, please.

Yes, I agree. For sure. For sure. And you get to talk to the graduate students at. The Booth School of Business, is that correct? From time to time, yes. The professors I used to speak for have rolled off, but yes, I guess lectured there in the past and I, I, well, it's talking about marketing, so I, of course, amazing, amazing, I love that.

[00:32:00] Love all of those extras for you. And so. Let's just go back real quick. When a company is in, in transition and you're working with people who are scared and listen, a lot of people are scared right now about all of the changes happening for corporate America. I just read a stat that 77% are scared to death, right?

That like they're terrible. Like it's, you're going into companies where. There's just no matter where you not get into politics, no matter where you are in socioeconomically, people are just nervous. Very. And you have ai, AI coming in and like I have a different perspective 'cause I was on an automation task force.

A million years ago as a young engineer, I'm like, oh, I've seen this. You've gotta map out the workflow. You've gotta figure, you've gotta get the right people in place. You're gonna have to upskill the labor force. I know, I know how this works. Like, and it's scary, it's hard. It's, um, everybody wants [00:33:00] everything to be perfect.

It won't be, there are gonna be some trips along the way. You pivot, you make it work. But if you haven't been through that, it's terrifying. Or if you're, you know, I have had coffee with a couple of executives before I went to Portugal that haven't logged into chat GPT or anything, and I was like, my friends.

Girl, you are leading an organization. Yes. She know not talking about her. I like, come on, you can't. Come on. She's like, I'm not doing it. And I'm like, you're not just doing it for you, you're doing it for your organization. And it's like you and I, I had a couple calls today where I'm, I'm doing some other AI stuff.

We were talking. You need leaders to embrace it enough so that they can get it started and get it going and like know enough about like, look, even when I was in a plant, could I code? Yes. But did I code? No, because I didn't have enough time. I was running a refinery, so we had coders, but I could talk [00:34:00] to the coders and say, Hey, here's, here's what we need to do.

Hey, we launched this. It's not quite right. Can you tweak this, this, and this? So it's like you have to know enough to lead your teams through it or to set up the task force. You also have to get, if you're not the expert, bring in the experts. Yes. If you need a vendor, this is where the salons are helpful.

And getting in, getting in masterminds is helpful. Like. Hey, Lori, who did you use for that? How did you roll that out? Okay. Do are any watch outs? Yeah. I like, I like this vendor, but they couldn't do this, this, and this. Okay, that's helpful. I would still hire them, realize this will be their bottleneck, and so that, that's where it's like, as you're doing this, get the right resources in place, get the right people to help you, but you've like, it's here, so it's like it's embracing it and just.

Moving forward? Yes. Yes. Okay. So to your friend. Just log on please on [00:35:00] be the power of example. Yes. Okay. Yes. I'm like, you can get out your iPhone now and download the app. And she's like, no. Okay. Okay. Well, we're all encouraging her. Yes. Okay. So for these 77% who statistically have spoken up and said, I'm afraid, maybe even terrified of the state of corporate America right now.

How do we help move them through that fear? I, I mean, first it's acknowledging it, Hey, this is scary. I, I get it here. Here's the direction that we're going. Here's your role highlighting somebody's role. Like when we work in teamster plants, here's the ways to upskill. Like, Hey, your job is changing. It's going to give you the benefits to you.

It's gonna give you more scope. It's gonna give you more jobs. Stability by having more scope. So highlighting the positives, highlighting the role, the benefits to them, and then saying, Hey, here's how we're gonna get [00:36:00] there. I get that. This is scary. We're gonna have the, we're gonna have training, we're gonna have group training and one-on-one training.

Training. You're not gonna have to figure this out by yourself If you wanna do self-study, here are the options. Yeah, I am gonna, here's how the change is happening. So I think people are terrified when they don't know anything. Even the unknown when we were doubling the refinery back in the day, Hey, here's, here's the process.

This, this, I, I like change. I know not everybody else does. Here's, here's the process for how. I don't want it to happen to you. I want, I want this to happen with you. And so here's the process. Here's your, here's gonna be your role and here's gonna be the, the tools that are available to help you. Here's going to be somebody else who can help you.

So I think highlighting that, having check-ins along the way, showing them, like taking them on the journey with you because [00:37:00] nobody wants it to happen to them. No, they wanna be a part of it. Yes. It's those surprises. Yeah. Yeah. And celebrating wins along the way, like for sure. Really taking time. It's easy to get so heads down and scared right now that you forget like, hey, somebody opened the app and logged in and they didn't want to.

So it's like if you can gamify it or celebrate wins and those pieces, just using psychology to help people go through it. But yeah, it's. It's, it's if you feel like everything is happening to you, it's very scary. Helping give people agency makes it less scary. Yes, agreed. And you know, one of the things that really inspires me the most about you is that you've had this constant reinvention.

Mm-hmm. So even if things are changing in the way we've known work up until this point, you are one of those people who really demonstrates that, listen. We can pivot, [00:38:00] we can take the skills and the experience that we are bringing with us to this point in time and do something different with it. And I love that.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I think you have to have your own personal superheroes that you kind of look at them and we're like, oh, I, I mean, I remember when somebody, 10 years older than me was interviewing and people said some horrible things and she called her on my, called me on her way home. And I was like, she goes, so I've reframed it and here's what I can control and here's what I can't control.

And you know, maybe there is an opportunity to upskill in a few areas and like, oh, if I am in something I like pull her off the shelf and I'm like, oh, here's how she handled it. Or you can like look at another like personal superhero and like, oh, how did they handle it? And you like look at yourself and be like, oh she was amazing with the way she handled this.

Or, so I think you have to like find examples of people who've done it. Because if you feel like you're the only one doing it, it's kind [00:39:00] of scary. But as you try to pivot and change and turn, if you can find somebody else who's done it, if you can talk to them even better. But like how did, how did they do it?

And there are like tons of real world examples out there. I think you're so right because our, our human brain can also say it's impossible. It can't be done. Yeah. And then you, you get caught in those loops until you see where somebody actually did it, and it is in fact possible. And then your brain has to recalibrate and rewire to the fact that, oh wait, this can done.

How do I do it? Yeah, it's getting in community. 'cause if you're in a community where 20 people are saying this can't be done, it's horrible. Like it's happening to us, it impacts you. Like be very conscious of who you're surrounding yourself with. Yes. If you pivot to another community where it's like, oh, my CPG marketing Mastermind group, it's like, [00:40:00] oh, what did you do?

Oh, that's cool. Oh, the team was really resistant. Here's how I approached it. Oh, I tried this vendor. I would go with that vendor. And it's like if you get in community and people start showing you what's possible, and if they're transparent about, Hey, I tried this and it didn't work. I tried that. Don't do it that way.

It's so inspiring and helpful. But if you, if you're in another community where they're like, it's not possible, you're not gonna get a job because of your age, you're not gonna get a job because of whatever. Like, it becomes, it becomes your story, whether you're the truth, your truth. Yeah. Whether you, whether you mean it to be or not.

And so it's like, that's why it's real. I think especially right now is we're in so much change. It's just being very conscious of, to your point earlier, what thoughts am I choosing and who am I choosing to be around and what personal superheroes or what people can I talk to that are doing it [00:41:00] or leading the way, or pivoting or shifting.

It's so helpful and it gives you just a different perspective. Yes, I run a community of women called the Connect, and there's about 30 of us, and it's really all about this. How can we raise the tide so all the ships rise and connect in a way that we're always seeking to just be accountable, get better, push the envelope, and it's been really powerful the, the caliber of women that have come in and what's really being accomplished.

And it impresses me every time I show up. I love that because if you're in that community, it's like, yes, you're giving, but then you're receiving. It's like, oh, I gave that, but I saw, oh, here's how somebody else did it. I can receive that. And then we all lift each other up, get the alternative. I don't wanna be in the group where we're all pushing each other down.

Like that's not never, that's not fun for anybody. It's like, how do we all, how do I help you? How do you help me? How do we all raise each other up? Yes. I think it's more [00:42:00] exciting. For sure, for sure. Okay. We have had such a tremendous conversation. Let's tell everybody how they can find you, how, and learn more about you and some of your services.

Just reach out to me on LinkedIn. That's probably the easiest way. LinkedIn. Anne Hager, H-O-E-G-E-R. Yes, and such a pleasure to get to talk to you today, Anne. I loved it. I really enjoyed talking to you too. Yes, me too. Thank you for being with us. Again, I'm Lori Pine, the joy, CEO, and we are so glad to have had you with us today.

We will see you back next week. Thanks for listening to the joy CEO. I hope today's conversation left you feeling seen. Stretched and a little more grounded in your own joy, if something resonated, be sure to hit subscribe. Leave a five star review and share this episode with someone walking a similar path.

And if you're ready to take this work deeper, connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram at Lori [00:43:00] Pine. Or head over to my website, lori pine.com, to learn more about coaching retreats and how we can work together. Because joy isn't just personal, it's powerful, and when you lead with joy, you don't just rise, you bring others with you.