Episode 18: Reinventing Yourself and Leading with Heart: Insights from Jennifer Kay

In this insightful and wisdom-filled conversation, Lori sits down with Jennifer Kay—an executive search professional and coach with 25 years of experience in the pharmaceutical and biosciences industries. From building teams for breakthrough cancer treatments at Merck and Moderna to guiding leaders through career reinvention, Jennifer shares how relationships, reflection, and alignment can unlock clarity and joy in leadership.

This episode isn’t just about finding the right role—it’s about reconnecting with your values, embracing change, and leading with purpose and heart. If you’re navigating uncertainty, reinventing yourself, or simply craving more joy in your leadership journey, this conversation will inspire you to pause, reflect, and realign.

Key Takeaways from Episode 18 of The JOY CEO Podcast

Relationships Are the Real Currency

Jennifer emphasizes that strong, authentic relationships are at the heart of effective leadership and career growth.

→ Audience follow-up: How intentional are you about nurturing your professional network?

Clarity Comes Through Reflection

Taking time to pause and reflect helps leaders uncover alignment between their values, skills, and next steps.

→ Audience follow-up: What’s one reflection question you need to ask yourself right now?

Reinvention Requires Courage

Jennifer shares her journey of transitioning from executive search to executive coaching, highlighting that fear can be a signal to reinvent yourself.

→ Audience follow-up: Where is fear showing up in your career—and how could it point you toward growth?

Self-Identity Shapes Leadership

Your sense of self deeply impacts how you lead and how others experience your leadership.

→ Audience follow-up: Are you leading from a place of clarity—or confusion?

Joy Is Not Optional

Even in high-pressure industries like pharma and biosciences, Jennifer stresses that joy is essential for resilience and long-term success.

→ Audience follow-up: What brings you joy in your work—and how can you build more of it into your day-to-day?

Mentioned Episode 18 of The JOY CEO Podcast: 

• Jennifer’s work building teams at Merck and Moderna for breakthrough cancer treatments
• The power of executive assessments in leadership development
• A transformative hike that reshaped Jennifer’s perspective
• Lessons from navigating COVID-19 challenges as a leader and coach

Reflection Prompts for Episode 18 of The JOY CEO Podcast:

• Where in your career are you being invited to reinvent yourself?
• Who in your network do you need to reconnect with this season?
• How do you measure joy in your leadership journey?

Who Episode 18 Is For:

• Leaders in transition or navigating uncertainty
• Executives seeking alignment between values and career goals
• Professionals in high-pressure industries looking to sustain clarity and joy
• Anyone curious about blending leadership with purpose and heart

Want to Go Deeper with Lori Pine?

• Reconnect with a mentor, colleague, or friend this week—strengthen your network.
• Journal on the question: What does joy look like in my leadership right now?
• Connect with Lori on LinkedIn or Instagram.
• Learn more about coaching, retreats, and leadership support at loripine.com.

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📲 Share this episode with a leader who could use clarity, courage, and joy in their career journey.

Transcript

Lori: Hello, so glad to have you here with me today. Today you're gonna be introduced to my dear friend Jennifer Kay, who is a tremendous leader in executive [00:01:00] search. She spent 25 years of her career finding some of the world's top talent for pharmaceutical and biosciences, life sciences industry.

And you're gonna hear some of the way she thinks about what it takes to build those relationships, find those people, work with them. Make sure the timing is right and get them into roles that fit their life, their lifestyle, their career, their career aspirations, and she has a tremendous amount of wisdom to share with us.

Some of it that will be incredibly applicable to you as you think about your career and the direction that you're heading. Jennifer became a dear friend. We talk about how we met, we talk about some bonding time we've spent together. And in general, the feel is [00:02:00] Jennifer could be anybody's bestie. She's just that type of person who happens to be so warm and kind and generous, but really talented.

And her Rolodex is full of some of the most amazing executives. That actually walked the planet. So you are gonna love to hear from her today, and I can't wait to jump in. Hello and welcome to the Joy CEO podcast. My name is Lori Pine and I am your host. I am so excited to welcome to the show today, my dear friend, Jennifer Kay, who you are gonna love hearing from.

Jennifer and I met during a certification class for our executive coaching program at Rutgers University. We met on Zoom and as chance would have it, we became fast friends, lucky us, and you are gonna be delighted to hear her [00:03:00] incredible career journey and just what she's doing today. So welcome to the show, my dear friend, Jennifer Kay.

Jennifer: Thank you, Lori. I am excited to be here.

Lori: So glad to have you. So I know all about you. I know the illustrious career you have had, but let's just tell, you know, people listening, just who you are and what you're all about.

Jennifer: Sure, sure. So I am a 25 year veteran, retained executive search partner, turned executive coach.

So I spent a very significant part of my career running a pharmaceutical and biotech executive search practice at a company called Stevenson Search Partners. And what I would say is I have significant amount of gratitude for that career. It gave me an opportunity to stay on the cusp of what was going on in the research and development world as far as [00:04:00] drug development is concerned, and to work with some really, really brilliant partners as clients and, and quite frankly.

During that career, not a single day or a single project was the same. And so the diversity of work and people that I was able to come across in that career was truly a gift. About four years ago, I decided that it was time to grow, continue to grow in my own personal journey, and so that was when I signed up for our illustrious coaching certification. And that was the beginning of our story and the beginning of a, of a capstone career for me.

Lori: Yes. Yes. And so what I really love about your story is that you were a bit on a different path when you were coming right out of your MBA and you tried a [00:05:00] couple of other things, and then this career really kind of landed in in your lap, if you will, and.

You dove in and you have some incredible experiences, incredible learnings, but some incredible relationships that have come out of this work that you've done. You wanna say more about that?

Jennifer: Sure. I, I, and again, I think in any career, relationships are really the jumping point for providing us with new opportunities.

Providing us with rich perspective. Yeah. And really coming across folks that we can learn and grow from. And so throughout my career I was able to work with a couple of clients on some really, really interesting and novel business expansions that ultimately impacted millions of patients and [00:06:00] families worldwide.

And so I don't take that lightly. One of the clients, and, and this is kind of an a really interesting story, and, and I wanna tie this to leadership, Lori, because my career has really been based on how to bring leaders into organizations and ensure that they fit from a values perspective, they fit from a skills perspective, and that their story and their goals align with, you know, where a client organization wants to go.

And early on in my career, I got a phone call from Merck, which was a client that had been a long-term client, probably for six or seven years at that point.

Lori: Merck as in Merck Pharmaceuticals.

Jennifer: Merck Pharmaceutical Company.

Lori: Big global company.

Jennifer: Big, big global company. Big, yes. Yep. And at the time they were [00:07:00] working primarily in disease areas like cardiovascular and respiratory migraine, diabetes, and I got this phone call and the voice on the other end said, we don't really do that much in oncology. We haven't been successful, but we have this asset and it looks like it's going to be promising and we want you to come in and work with.

A gentleman by the name of Eric Rubin, who was really the architect of one of the first immunotherapy assets or drugs that was successful in the market and built up his physician team. And that was in 2011. And at this point, that drug, which is called Keytruda, is in dozens and dozens of oncology disease areas and really, really reframed.

You know, the oncology [00:08:00] marketplace in terms of the immune system actually being able to be activated right to, to, to impact it, it to the, the immune system was harnessed. Against cancer and patients who had run out of options were living longer.

Lori: Wow. So let me get this straight. This company had an asset, you called it, but it's essentially a drug that they were building.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But in order to build out. The thought leadership, the brilliance, the science that goes behind it, they intuitively knew that they needed the team of doctors and scientists that went behind that asset. That went what? That went behind that drug in order to get it to be the drug that could go to market, that could go to the hospitals and the research centers to really make an impact and save lives.

Change lives through this immunotherapy that [00:09:00] you're, you're describing. And so they brought you in to build out that team to help find these executives, do an executive search that would find these brilliant people and bring them in to impact their work the way that as a company, they really wanted to.

Jennifer: Yeah, and, and it's really interesting because from that time period, you know, we've been able to see the data built. So first it was in melanoma where, you know, back in the day patients with advanced melanoma survived, you know, months, right? And then in lung cancer. And so I had the opportunity to work with Merck and Dr. Rubin to begin to build out the team that would then develop all of these future indications.

So we're talking about, you know, any cancer primarily that you can think [00:10:00] about, you know, whether it's, and, and the buzz around kind of what was building in the marketplace was electric. So it was, it was a, it was a new day for pharma companies in terms of cancer treatments, and my job was to build relationships with the entire market of physicians, both from an academic center setting as well as other pharma companies, to find the folks that could actually develop all these indications.

And, you know, you, you, you bring up a, a, you brought up a comment and brought it back to relationships, and every year I would go to the world's largest oncology conference.

And as we were building out our searches expanded beyond just physicians to the folks that would go out and teach the doctors about right. What these, these assets could be used [00:11:00] for and how to the folks that would work with the different ministries of health to gain access. And so, you know, here I was kind of building these cross-functional teams, not just here in the US.

But also in Europe and in other regions of the world and building relationships. And every year I would go to ASCO. I would meet with all of the placements that we've made year over year, over year to see how they were doing. And you know, I was always amazed at the one consistency across folks that I worked with in this field.

And that was, they were. They were focused on making an impact on health and wellness and disease, and most of these leaders were very limited in their ego. Wow. So really, really [00:12:00] cool experiences.

Lori: So relationships was really the core of what you did. And so I do wanna get a little bit nitty gritty to say, you know, how would you find these people?

How and how long would it take to nurture these relationships to actually get somebody placed and in a job?

Jennifer: Yeah. So, so it's interesting an executive search firm has, has teams of researchers who really identify the individuals out there that are, have a, have a track record of success and then really interview against leadership capabilities.

Right. And, and, and fit. So we had teams that were really out there looking at who had developed other comparable assets in the past and or was working on trying to break through this field of, of immunotherapy. But I [00:13:00] think that the timing on it is as, as anything, right? Sometimes you have to catch somebody at the right time because lots of folks that are involved in cancer research.

Maybe in multi-year programs where they don't want to make a move until they hit a milestone. Right? Right. Or they might have kids in school in, you know. Mm-hmm. X, Y, Z country or region of the world. So yeah, some of it's timing. Um, sure. But I think that the real match is making sure that as an individual looks at a new opportunity, they're not just selling themselves.

They're actually looking more holistically at the team that they'll be working with at the organization, at the values, right? And ensuring that that resonates. And then also [00:14:00] that the branding that's being put behind the organization and the company is actually true to what's being told to an individual.

So we took a lot of extra care in ensuring that those conversations were had and, and as a matter of fact, early on, before kind of the biotech boom, we would guarantee our placements for two years. So really standing behind the fact that we had really taken a deep dive with candidates and with the client.

To make sure that it would be a potentially strong fit. And we can get into that that a little bit later, but that's part of the reason that I was so attracted to coaching. Yeah. Because I wanted to continue the journey and make sure that we could be a part of trying to [00:15:00] maximize that individual's success.

Lori: Yeah. How fascinating that you could meet all of these amazing leaders, have these incredible conversations, build these relationships. And I, I know because I know you personally, that many of those relationships are still in your life today. And you know, these people have gone on to have big impact.

These assets have grown. And you know, as you talked about, you know, Dr. Eric have gone into the market and made incredible progress and changed lives. So, yeah. How incredible. You know, all executives face uncertainty. What is a practical way for them to start to find clarity? Whether it's, do I move to a new job?

Do I stay at the same job, do, how do I solve a problem, whatever the, the unclarity is, how does it become clear?

Jennifer: Yeah, so it, it's interesting. We're in a, a very unique time right [00:16:00] now where there is a tremendous amount of uncertainty, especially right now as we're looking at, at changes to our healthcare system.

Not only here in the US but but around the world. And unfortunately, some of that clarity breeds, breeds uncertainty and ambiguity for these leaders. So I would say clarity doesn't come from just rushing into things, right? Whether you're rushing to try to solve a problem or you're running away from something because you are afraid that perhaps there won't be funding behind, you know, the, the programs or projects that you're working on.

So I like to say that clarity comes from slowing down and reflecting.

Lori: Which is so counterintuitive when you are a very busy executive who wants to achieve goals. [00:17:00] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right?

Jennifer: Yeah. So, so I, I often will ask executives, especially those executives that reach out because they are uncertain around either organizational factors or macro economic factors or, you know, other factors that are potentially gonna impact the programs that they work on or funding. And that is, you know, let's really take a step back and kind of look at where you'd like to go directionally. And in order to do that. Let's reflect back on a couple of things.

So one is asking executives to think about a time where they were the most productive, where they were happy, where the [00:18:00] environment that they were in gave them energy and joy and who the people were around them at that time. And, and we opened to a kind of a deep dive because the answers that executives give, will reveal some themes around either the kind of impact that they wanna have, the kind of culture that they thrive in, and what matters most to them.

And then from there we can really kind of try to get some more clarity around either a situation they're facing or even approaching their own careers.

Lori: Incredible. So sometimes it's just putting the right questions in front of people so that they can do that deep dive within themselves as though the answer is already within.

Jennifer: Yeah, and you know what's so crazy, Lori, when you think about reflection and you know, I just gave you an example of, okay, tell me a time when [00:19:00] you were happiest, right? But when you think about one's career mm-hmm. You can actually kind of break it down into chapters.

Lori: I love that. Say more.

Jennifer: Yeah. And so what I encourage leaders to do is, you know, especially when they're looking at a new opportunity or thinking about a succession plan or a long-term strategy, where do I want to be in five years?

Right? Yes. So I encourage people, and it goes back to relationships, to take the chapters and make a short list of people who were present in those chapters. They could be mentors, they could be peers, they could be cross-functional partners, they could be direct reports. Right. And to reconnect with them, especially when leaders call and their flustered because of uncertainty.

It, it's, it's [00:20:00] almost taking the time to, to be vulnerable, reconnect with network and listen, because those are the people that know you. Yeah. And will remind you of your strengths. Yeah. And also perhaps help you look at possibilities for yourself, especially when you're caught in fear.

Lori: Yes, yes. And again, back to this theme of relationships and how powerful relationships can be in our life and in our career.

So let's just say that you go back to these chapters, you're gonna identify these three to five people from each stage. What would stop somebody from, from doing that? From reaching out?

Jennifer: Fear.

Lori: Yes. Fear. And they're gonna tell themselves a story. Like, they're not gonna remember me, they're not gonna remember the work that I did.

Maybe they didn't even like me. Maybe they're too busy, you [00:21:00] know, all these things. Maybe I don't even have their correct cell phone number in my phone anymore. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All these things. But the truth is, and you and I have talked about this. When we receive a call like that, or a LinkedIn message like that, we're so happy to hear from the person.

Mm-hmm. And. Happy to give our time and to say hello and connect and schedule a, a coffee zoom or what, whatever it might be. Or, I mean, an in real life coffee meeting is like the real cherry on top, but just to connect over Zoom and, and hear how somebody's doing and have those conversations, just, it changes things for us too to be able to be at service like that.

Jennifer: A hundred percent. And it's, it's really interesting because you're talking to very established executives and whether somebody's starting out in their career or has 30 years behind them, we all [00:22:00] have our insecurities, right? And really, really kind of not allowing fear to narrow your perspective. Right.

And, and, and reaching into rekindling some of those relationships. And it's interesting, I've had a conversation re recently with a client who is just in a, an absolutely amazing, brilliant global public health executive. And we talked about reaching out to some of the folks and in, in this individual's network, and what's the worst thing that happens?

Lori: They don't respond. That's it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jennifer: And so if you reach out, let's just say to one of your, you know, chapters to five people and two respond, three may not, and it's likely that they are busy, or, you know, they put it on the back burner. Oh, I'll respond to her [00:23:00] later. Right. What a, what a nice, you know, what a nice message to receive.

I'll respond to them later, and then perhaps it gets pushed aside because there are other things going on. That conversation that we do have may be that one conversation that sheds light and clarity or opens our eyes to other opportunities. So I always encourage folks not to shy away from reaching out to their network.

Lori: Yeah. Even just the idea of that connection of somebody from that chapter who knew me then does something for my soul. You know, it, it reminds me of that version of me and, um. It's, it's really a place that you can go back to and pull from and say, Ooh, I still have a little bit of that in me. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. And that's, and there's something to be said for that alone, so. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I, I do love that.

Jennifer: Yeah. It's al it's also really interesting when, when folks now are going [00:24:00] through the, the. The throes of the uncertain environment that we're in right now, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and they think about, okay, well what's gonna happen to me if I lose, you know, my job, for instance?

I think there's, there's, there's a, a conversation I like to have with clients, which is, if you could reinvent yourself, what would that look like? You know, people tend to, in times of fear, cling to titles or familiar structures or narrow their perspective because they're worried about, you know, not having a job.

But I think that there's an opportunity here, which is about realigning with what matters most, and kind of stepping into that next chapter with intention.

Lori: Yes, and I'm, I mean, honestly, how many conversations have you and I had about this for our own personal journeys? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, [00:25:00] we've, we've been at the top of a mountain again, had this conversation, you know, when you, when you shift from one chapter to a whole new chapter, you know, you leave some of those identities behind as you, you.

Pave a path for something new and, but not all is lost. Mm-hmm. In any way. We're still bringing all of our worth, all of our value, all of our knowledge and experiences with us. Even though something ahead of us is unknown and the structure may be gone and the, you know, the, the familiar people may be gone and the familiar routine of a day may be gone, the, the who we are doesn't leave.

Mm-hmm. And that's powerful. And it's a powerful reminder, and I know that I need people like you in my life to remind me of that.

Jennifer: Well, I was just about to say the, the, the same to you, and I think it was this time of [00:26:00] year when you and I hiked up Mohawk Yes. Mountain. Yes. And we were having a conversation because for a while I wore two hats.

Mm-hmm. I was a partner managing, you know, a. A number of, uh, pharmaceutical companies and, and a book of business around executive search. But I was saying, okay, how now can I integrate?

Mm-hmm.

Executive coaching into the picture. Right. And I was thinking of different ways to bring the two together. And we got up to the top of the mountain and it was, the leaves were changing.

It was a gorgeous day and you could see for miles, and it was like a light bulb that went off, which was, oh my gosh, look at this perspective. It's wide [00:27:00] open.

Lori: Wide open, no limitations.

Jennifer: And I think from that conversation I was able to really put some thought into, okay, in this wide open world, given what I've done and the impact I want to have in terms of really getting in there with clients and ensuring that they look at short and longer term steps with some clarity, stability.

Right. And, you know, and possibility to kind of really help me to get clear on the strengths, values, and an environment that I thrive in and, and where I could help others in the future.

Lori: Yes. And if we, if we talk about. How all that came to be. So Jen and I decided that [00:28:00] we would literally run away from home for a few days, go to Mohawk Mountain House because our boys are the same age ages and we were dropping our youngest off.

At college and we were becoming empty nesters, quote unquote for the very first time. And so we, we had this conversation, made this agreement. We're like, yeah, let's not just go home to an empty house. Let's meet and have a few days just together before we settle into this reality of what it's like to have both of our boys away for college.

And so we did that and so much came out of it. You know, these aha moments. And both of us were coming off of quite a, a rough stretch through COVID because this was 2022. Mm-hmm. Uh, when we were doing this and we had been through COVID. Wanna talk a little bit about what, what work was like for you [00:29:00] during COVID and kind of what you had been through, and so where you were at when you were at the mountaintop of Mohawk?

Jennifer: Yeah. So I, I think two things I wanna get back to, to Joy, which you, we were able to transition your business model from working through unsteady times. Mm-hmm. Into Joy, right? Yeah. And that lens just opened up so much. But as far as COVID, I don't know if you remember on the news there was a conference in Boston.

And it was a very large biotech company that had brought executives in from all over the world. And after that conference, dozens of these executives got sick. I had actually been in Boston meeting with clients and one of those clients was Moderna and I had [00:30:00] just finished my first search for them. I had placed a an SVP of development operations there, and I was meeting with what was then the former CMO, who's now the former CMO to talk about where they were in their development of vaccine, their vaccines and mRNA, and beginning to set the table.

For building up their executive team as they got into later stages of development. We weren't wearing masks yet. There was Purell on the desk, and I took a flight home with kind of a rough plan for the next six months only to come down with COVID. And within a couple of days we recognized. What the world was coming to.

And they were, you know, basically on your marks get set, go, let's build this team. So during COVID, my team and [00:31:00] I must have done two dozen placements, really beginning to take a company like Moderna from what was, you know, early in the clinic, preclinical to, you know, getting it out to the world their, their mRNA vaccine.

So definitely a very interesting. And robust time from a work perspective, something that I would never trade in terms of experience.

Lori: Yes. You were not at home watching Netflix No. During COVID. No, no, no, no. You neither was I. Neither of us had that experience. Yes. We were on the forefront of trying to make business happen and mm-hmm.

Your experience really made an impact because as we all know, Moderna was really on the forefront of getting a vaccine to market to really help save lives. And that was their mission. No matter what controversy may be out there about vaccines or not, that was what they did. And that's ultimately what happened and is people [00:32:00] stop dying and so.

I so appreciate that perspective of you that you are heads down placing dozens of executives in roles so that all of that could come to market.

Jennifer: Yeah, and, and look, I think, you know, it was obviously a team effort and from a reflection standpoint, this was not the norm in terms of mm-hmm. The roles that we were placing and the lift that we were asking folks to have and the environment was really tough, right?

Because you had a, a biotech mentality that all of the sudden, you know, was hiring, you know, hundreds and hundreds of, you know, eventually a couple thousand employees. So there was a lot of key learnings from that time as well. And I think that was one of the motivating factors for me to say, okay, you know, I've had this amazing [00:33:00] chapter, but very often, especially with scientists or engineers or folks that have a very specialized track, right?

Mm-hmm. Um, there's some learning that comes with the pressure of meeting everyday goals. And that learning is, okay, how am I going to do this in the most efficient and effective manner? And that all comes back to people.

Lori: Yeah, right.

Jennifer: And how do I take on a new challenge and be cognizant of building relationships in a steady fashion, of asking for feedback of communicating.

Mm-hmm. And really ensuring that you're pulling the thread through of high impact leadership while you're tackling problems. And that is not easy.

Lori: Not easy, not [00:34:00] easy.

And with that experience, that's what you continue to bring to clients today. Yes. And you know, as we think about growth patterns and strengths, how is it that you think about that and how people can become their best?

Jennifer: Yeah, so it's really interesting. I think one of the, I was never a big believer in assessments. I, I always was very intuitive in my approach to the executive search world and. I think my intuition worked in that. Mm-hmm. I've been able to maintain and retain long-term relationships, but I really began to delve deep into the science.

Mm-hmm.

Behind assessments, motivation, emotional intelligence, behaviors. Right. Personality. And so in my practice now where I'm either [00:35:00] working with executives who or in transition or helping executives to integrate in new roles in their organization succession, or folks that come in from the outside into a new organization will very often set the table mm-hmm.

With some type of an assessment that makes the most sense and really so that the individual understands themself, that the organization has an understanding for whatever assessment and the, that, the, that we choose to utilize and we use it as a baseline to understand not only the individual coming in, but also the people around them and where they fall from that assessment perspective and, and to be cognizant.

Of those differing traits and [00:36:00] characteristics to maximize how we communicate, how we interact, and really open the dialogue from the get go. Um, we also spend a lot of time with the team, not just the, the hiring manager or hr, but also. The leadership team around that individual and even some of their direct reports to understand and ensure that everybody's aligned in terms of what the expectations are and that the individual can really come in and while they're learning their picking kind of their short term versus longer term wins, and they're going back against their planned, their relationships, their interactions and just kind of.

Really making a very, very focused weekly, monthly, quarterly plan.

Lori: Yes. And I think that that sage advice for anybody who's even [00:37:00] just listening and may not have the, the support from their organization to, to do exactly that. Have those plans for yourself, have that ability to reflect, have that ability to go back and check on those relationships.

Really be critical in how you go forward.

Jennifer: Yeah. And to talk about the interactions that you have, right. Or that your team is having with perhaps one of your peers, you know, who's interacting with your team. So not being afraid to talk about not only the, the wins, but the losses.

Yeah.

And, and I think one of the, one of the stories that stuck with me.

Was actually a, an executive that we placed at Moderna. And what he would do at the end of every project was have a cake. Hmm. And, and he would have a cake both to celebrate wins, but even more importantly, to celebrate their [00:38:00] loss and talk about what happened. What could we be doing better in the future?

Right. But not to treat it as, you know, a slap on the hand to actually encourage folks to try new things. Right. Fail fast and learn versus an environment where you're punished, right. For trying to innovate. So I love that.

Lori: We're even gonna, yeah. We're even gonna celebrate and have cake over the things that didn't go so well.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. That creates a culture that we can actually speak up and expose things that aren't going well. Mm-hmm. As opposed to an environment where you're only allowed to say the good things and then there's coverup for the things that are failing. That can be a really corrosive environment. I'm actually coaching somebody right now in an environment like that, and it is incredibly challenging for her.

So let's talk about joy. [00:39:00] Let's talk about leaders stepping into joy during transition, because that can be a nerve wracking time.

Jennifer: Yeah. So look, I think joy doesn't mean ignoring uncertainty, right?

Lori: No.

Jennifer: But it means anchoring yourself in what energizes you. And really giving it meaning, it gives you meaning, right?

You can anchor yourself in all of the woe is me that's going on in our world today, and it's just gonna be, you know, a, a whirling circle of negativity. But if an executive gets clear on their strengths, their values, and really tries to recreate the environments in which they thrive and understand their team and the environments that will help them to thrive, because we're not all [00:40:00] the same.

Right. You know, I may I, I may thrive in an environment where, you know, I tend to talk out my thoughts, but I may have somebody on my team who's really, really quiet. Right and prefers to communicate in a different way. So ensuring that we're kind of catering to the team and how they want to be treated.

Mm-hmm. Not just how we want to be treated. Right. And kind of finding that sweet spot, if you will. I also think that when an executive steps into what energizes them, it's easier to make choices that aren't driven by fear.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And where they're not defensive, they're actually working offensively.

Lori: Yes. Yes. [00:41:00] I often talk a lot about how joy is this profound and holistic sense of wellbeing and contentment, and when we are in a state of wellbeing and contentment, all of what you're saying is actually coming true. We know ourselves, we know our strengths. We know what energizes us, but we also have enough.

Care of taking care of that and of ourselves, that we can actually take action upon it. And that joy then becomes this strength for our leadership. And it's not just some fluff. And when we can lead from that space, it really can make a difference. You know, there's a lot of metrics around the power of a.

Joyous leader in terms of productivity and sales and customer satisfaction. And the, the metrics are profound, and so I agree entirely with what you're saying, but it takes, like you said, from from the [00:42:00] very start of this podcast, it takes that willingness to take a pause and a reflection to go inward and say, okay, where, where am I?

How do I go go back to myself and. And, and do a little bit of soul searching. You know, where was I the happiest? Where can I be the happiest? What do I bring to the table? Where am I going to be energized?

Jennifer: Yeah. And, and, and I think there's so many books out there now, getting happy, right? Finding Happiness, all sorts of books.

But I, I think the, the one of the takeaways that I would have around that is you can choose to look at the world from a lens of scarcity.

Mm-hmm.

Or you can choose to look at the possibilities. Yes. And that's kind of [00:43:00] really where reinvention happens as leaders move out of their fear, but also where.

Leaders inspire.

Lori: Yes. Yes. That's a beautiful, beautiful way to bring this all to all to life. So what I've kind of heard in this episode is. We're going to reflect to find the clarity that helps us get out of uncertainty. We're going to use career chapters to help us reconnect and network back with our relationships and all of that chatter in our head that may be negative, that says, oh, they're not gonna remember me.

It's not true. Just take the action, connect back. If you get one or two out of five, you're winning because you've, you've made that contact. The third thing I heard was about strengths and growth. Get beyond those growth edges to keep yourself going, and then step into joy because [00:44:00] that's where you can actually start to thrive and become who you are meant to be as a leader.

You go from scarcity to possibility thinking, and then who knows what's next for you.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Lori: How'd I do? Did I capture it?

Jennifer: Yeah, I think, I think that you, that you did capture it, and I think it goes really back to the basics, right? We learned as we grow and as we take on responsibilities, that people carry with them different pressures and emotions, and we see that whether we're sitting in a restaurant, you know, and interacting with waiter or waitress. We see it online at a store and we see it in our corporate environments. And having the space to kind of take a step back reflect whether you're looking for a new [00:45:00] opportunity, taking on a new role, or in an everyday leadership position. It creates the space for possibility versus the mindset of, of kind of scarcity.

Lori: Yes, yes. So if we take this kind of to a funny level and this storied career that you have had. In what would've been the mind of maybe your 7-year-old when he went to parent teacher conference night and told, what does my mommy do for a profession? He would have said, what?

Jennifer: My mommy just created a new cancer drug.

So you had to bring that up. It is. It is a funny story, yes. That we used to kind of. And this is from my childhood, right. Everybody came home from work. You sat around the table and everybody talked about their day. Yes. I carried that through to my children and mm-hmm. My oldest son [00:46:00] came home and said, well, in, in class today, right?

We talked about our, our parents, and I told them that you, that, that my mom is developing a cancer drug. And so I was a little bit scared to go to the parent teacher night and, and be. Addressed as Dr. Kay, but you know, I, I think in his mind she knew I was getting gratification

Lori: Yeah.

Jennifer: By just being in that industry.

Right. Of course. I, I wish I had the, the smarts to have to develop.

Lori: Well, she's not that wrong. I mean, you were helping, you are putting the right people in the right places. I mean, if it makes you feel any better, I went to parent teacher night and my child has said, well, my mom sells coke. And so they were really expecting a drug dealer.

So.

Jennifer: That's hysterical. That's hysterical.

Lori: So out of the mouths of babes, so. Exactly. Exactly. These boys. Yes, yes, yes. So fun. [00:47:00] Absolutely. Well, Jen, a pleasure to have you with us. I, is there any details you would like for listeners to know about you where they can find you more information about you?

Jennifer: So you can find me on LinkedIn with stevenson search.com.

Lori: Wonderful. What a delight to have you on. I'm sure you were a gift to so many who will listen today. And as always, just a gift to my heart and a joy to just be with such a pleasure, my friend. Thank you.

Jennifer: Thank you for having me.